We invited Kozo Takei, CEO of Diamond Media Co., Ltd., for a management conversation.

In the first session, "Horacy Management and Bali Flat Management", we started with each other's introductions and talked about why we ended up in such management. This time, we will delve into the raw topic of salary and evaluation!

Part 2 "Salary and evaluation to speak honestly"

How to Evaluate Valuable People

Nakamura

Changing the subject a little... There was a story earlier that it is annoying to be arrogant even though it has no meaning, but I think that people with talent spontaneously become like leaders. It's not a hierarchy, but it's like someone is walking ahead and following it. I am curious about how such a leader who is born in flat management is treated.

Takei

Diamond Media's salary is based on a thicker basic income, but there is a salary system called "meritorious salary", and that part is a variable salary. We re-decide this once every six months.

Nakamura

Is there an upper limit?

Takei

No, no. There are two ways of thinking about salary: job pay and functional salary. I think that job salary evaluates the value of the job itself, and professional salary evaluates a person's knowledge and ability, but I don't think it can be evaluated correctly by itself. For example, a "mood maker" or a "character who can do things well".

Nakamura

There are people who are difficult to express, but they are certainly valuable.

Takei

Yes, I think that quantitative evaluation of such power is difficult and cannot be fully evaluated as an evaluation system.

Nakamura

There is a feeling that only God knows. (Laughter)

Takei

I also tried a 360-degree evaluation, but it didn't feel right to me, so I stopped "evaluating others by others" itself. So how do we decide, we decide in a way that is compared to the market price, like the stock price. All salaries are made open, and the decision is made based on market value and the balance of disparities between individuals.

Salary is also open! Its name is "money meeting"

Nakamura

How much salary range will be generated? ISAO is about 3.5 million yen to 12 million yen, and people in their early 30s are in the 9 million yen range.

Takei

I guess that's how we are. The average age is about 28 or 29 years old, and the average annual income is about 5 million yen now. Since it is a highly specialized job, there is a fact that if it is too cheap, it will not be possible to recruit. I think it's about 3.5 million yen for new graduates, and about 9 million yen for the top. However, there are more than 10 million people who work on outsourcing.

Nakamura

The way salary is determined is very interesting. Do you feel like everyone is saying to each other, "This person seems to have about 7 million yen!"

Takei

Salary is decided at a "money meeting" that decides how to spend the money of the entire company. We have decided on guidelines based on nine years of trial and error, but the first thing is to "align with market values". For example, how much would it cost if the work was outsourced, or how much would it cost if a new person was hired to do the job? It feels like everyone gathers together and highly capable people lead and discuss.

Nakamura

Is it like a person who outsources work and everyone decides?

Takei

That's right. In the case of outsourcing, about 30% to 50% of the salary is added.

Nakamura

So, if the outsourcing person becomes an employee, will the payment amount be lowered?

Takei

The take-home pay will go down. However, I think there are benefits to being an employee in many ways, such as mortgage screening and pension benefits.

Things that separate from evaluation

Nakamura

As for how ISAO's salary is determined, ISAO has a coaching system to monitor each individual's growth. Coaches do not necessarily have senior members, and younger members may coach senior members. It feels like the person who can best support each individual's growth is a coach regardless of age. If you are the coach or a member you are involved in the project with, you can recommend a raise for that person at any time. The recommendation is operated in a form approved by the "Personnel Committee" called "people who are a little withered and not greasy (laughs)". In addition, ISAO has a fixed salary for each grade, and the components of each grade are professional skill level, +α business contribution, basic operations, and management participation, and each item is added or minus and reduced to a grade. ISAO recommends salary increases and salary revisions at any time in real time, so we evaluate it every six months, but rather than confirming the salary, we use it as an opportunity to convey information such as "the grade is likely to go up soon, or it is likely to go down soon."

Takei

I see.

Nakamura

I feel that if this operation is carried out in an open organization, it will not be a strange evaluation. Because it is open, anyone can ask questions on Goalous (an in-house SNS service developed by ISAO), and all employees can see the answers to questions, so there is no need for personal favoritism.

Takei

Sounds good. Although there are differences in management styles depending on the industry and industry, I think it is necessary to ensure transparency. At Diamond Media, we try not to evaluate four points when discussing salary.

These include "self-evaluation", "short-term evaluation", "evaluation of expectations for the future of the person", and "evaluation due to changes in work content". Self-evaluation is not included in the evaluation because it depends on objectivity. Do not make short-term evaluations because you misjudge the value of the person. I don't evaluate the expectations of that person for the future because it will create a salary bubble. Evaluations based on changes in work content are not done because the essential value of the person has not changed. I will prepare my evaluation while thinking so. In rare cases, you may not be satisfied with the evaluation prepared in this way, and in that case, we will propose a role, etc., but if you still cannot agree, we recommend changing jobs.

Nakamura

It's similar to ISAO. In particular, the part about "short-term evaluation" is similar. We conduct short-term evaluations through a performance-based reward system called AWARD, and we do not take that into account in the grading evaluation. If you don't cut it properly, you will lose sight of its intrinsic value, so I cut it quickly. Also, the part that the value of a person does not change due to "changes in the content of work" is exactly the same.

Takei

That's right. That makes it easier to take on various tasks.

Nakamura

After all, the way of thinking is similar. The "self-evaluation" part is about "it's okay to assert" at ISAO. Because it will be easier to give feedback. What will you do if someone with extremely high market value joins the company in the future, for example, if a reasonable annual income of 20 million yen appears?

Takei

As a diamond media, I think it will take the form of paying the salary as it is or having them work twice a week. (laughs) Or, since our officers are elected, if they are elected, they will become officers and pay as executive compensation. Market value is important, but we also focus on the sense of satisfaction within the company.

Huh? A system that makes it easy to quit? !

Nakamura

On the other hand, is there a standard like "these people should not be in the diamond media"?

Takei

Is he a person who doesn't fit the business we are doing?

Nakamura

Does that mean skillfully?

Takei

That's right. I don't look at personality that much. This is because people who don't fit in will naturally quit.

Nakamura

I mean, I mean.

Takei

If we all discuss it while keeping our salaries open, people who don't fit (Diamond Media) will quit right away because they are too uncomfortable. For those who quit within 3 months, there is a system called the "mismatch system" that pays one month more severance pay.

Nakamura

I guess it also means that this was bad too.

Takei

Yes. We have created quite a few systems that make it easy to quit the company. There is a system to partner with a company you know to accept retirees, and a trial transfer system. I think there are people who fit our business model in the first place, and there are people who don't.

Nakamura

ISAO has not yet created a system that makes it easy to quit. But it's really good.

Can you forgive a sloppy guy? Can't forgive?

Nakamura

On a different note, what kind of atmosphere is the company overall? Is it an athletic club or a research-oriented person?

Takei

It's basically a loose ......, but it's often said that it's like a college student club or club room.

Nakamura

Are there any employees who can't get up in the morning at all?

Takei

There is. (Laughter)

Nakamura

Is that okay? (Laughter)

Takei

No, it's not good.

Nakamura

The fact that everyone decides the salary means that everyone acknowledges that the person is "worth being late". So, if that person is not late, will he get paid more?

Takei

You might get it. However, only such members have genius skin, so they can finish a job that would take an ordinary person two months in three days.

Nakamura

This part is a little different from ISAO. This may be my hobby, but I have a very strong desire to raise them as adults. I want people to be recognized by the world not just as human resources who can be used by ISAO alone.

Takei

Of course, I have that feeling, but I want to properly look at the value that person is creating.

Nakamura

ISAO also has many employees who have no experience in a company that does good old "discipline", and the basic appearance and communication are loose, so I would like to do only basic education. It's an old woman's way of thinking.

About Productivity Management and Scalability

Nakamura

By the way, how do you manage productivity? At ISAO, there is no department and no concept of a boss, so we do not specifically manage the resources of each individual. Many employees span multiple projects and manage their own resources, but in the case of Diamond Media, how do you operate and optimize them?

Takei

Diamond Media is not yet large, so it's quite rough in that area.

Nakamura

ISAO is also rough, but I think it will be optimized by making the work style open. By opening up how much man-hours were spent on what kind of work with our own man-hour aggregation system called tadashi, everyone can grasp the allocation of other people's man-hours, so if the man-hours and output are too strange, we are always in a state of confusion.

Takei

We also use a system called a laborer to manage who devoted how many hours to which tasks. Basically, we discuss problem solving and new projects at monthly meetings to decide who will do what.

Nakamura

How conscious are you in designing the system as the organization grows?

Takei

We design scalability with a lot of awareness, so I think it can withstand about 100 people.

Nakamura

Can we talk about salaries with 100 people?

Takei

Currently, we are already divided into groups of less than 10 people. I do it twice, once with "people I work with" and once with a random combination.

Nakamura

The point is that various opinions come out and can be arranged even if the number of people increases. Do you want to be open about the results?

Takei

It's like making the results of the first round open first, adjusting the salary amount between the management department and the executives, including me, and having them talk about it again based on that. Adjustments are often adjusted in the direction of raising rather than lowering. In the past, there were adjustments that were lowered due to excessive "self-evaluation", but with this system, such things have naturally decreased.

Nakamura

What ISAO is doing is almost the same. It feels like members and coaches of the same project evaluate it on Goalous, and the results are seen by the HR committee and adjusted. The personnel committee is also transparent because it doesn't matter who participates.

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Next time. The third session is "The future that each other is aiming for". Please look forward to it!